But Kodi on Android doesn’t have this problem either. For me the problem comes from CE. But it is indeed complicated to flush out.
The fact that the bug is absent on all frequencies between 24hz and 50hz is perhaps a clue. This bug only occurs on the 59 and 60 Hz frequencies. In video playback, the bug appears on 4k@60 and 1080p@30hz sources, but the interface switch back to 4k@60hz on that source 1080p@30hz. Which would confirm that the problem is only related to the frequency close to 60hz.
What about 100hz or 120hz ?
I don’t really believe it, but may be the bug wouldn’t occur with a 100hz or 120hz refresh. Is it possible to integrate a 4k@100hz ans 4k@120hz options ? Even if it doesn’t solve the problem, it won’t be a wasted effort. @120hz GUIs are becoming quite common.
And can you image how many people are working on Android which is the main OS for Amlogic. With proper documentation.
And how many people are working on CE. Without documentation and without contact to Amlogic.
Hi Vpeter,
Sorry, I must be expressing myself badly. I am fully aware of that. I often salute your rigorous and voluntary work. Without you, none of this is possible.
I simply try to provide all the arguments for the search for this bug. I know how time consuming it is. But it seems to me that the more time passes, the more this bug becomes important. The more graphic interfaces become refined, the larger the screens of the users and the more the low definition of CE stands out. I don’t know what I can do on my side, unfortunately I don’t have any prorammation skills. But I can do test reports if needed. I tried to bring a maximum of details and precision concerning the behavior of this bug.
Would it be cumbersome to bring a 4k@100hz and 4k@120hz display mode ? both it would meet future demand, and in addition, it would broaden my observations regarding the behavior of this bug. I don’t believe it too much, but as the bug does not appear on the 50hz frequency, if it is, the problem may no longer exist on a frequency higher than 60hz like 100hz.
If you have a 120Hz Panel your video will play 120Hz if the framerate “fits”. 120Hz / 24fps = 5. 30fps and 60fps will also play in 120Hz. If you have 25 or 50fps your TV will use 100Hz.
Now that is refreshrates of the panel. But you are most likely talking about the GUI. I don’t think the GPU is capable to give you 120FPS at 1080p and especially 4K.
Framebuffer (fbdev) is not capable to handle the bandwidth for you to play a video and pull up a GUI overlay without producing hiccups. Amlogic also uses fb compression for some codecs and resolutions to make it work.
So yeah this is a limitation of CE but right now there is no alternative. Actually there is but we have not the manpower to switch.
“If you have a 120Hz Panel your video will play 120Hz if the framerate “fits”. 120Hz / 24fps = 5. 30fps and 60fps will also play in 120Hz. If you have 25 or 50fps your TV will use 100Hz”
Ok Thanks
II.
“But you are most likely talking about the GUI. I don’t think the GPU is capable to give you 120FPS at 1080p and especially 4K.”
Even if the GPU does not go up to 120hz constantly, the benefits will be there. First, because even in 4k, the number of images regularly tops out at 60fps. So I guess it has to go over the top from time to time. It would be a gain of a few % of fluidity for free. And then for the moment, as it only works with Scaling, in other words the A311D2 has no trouble reaching 120fps in this configuration
The main benefit that I see is → latency halved. Even if the number of images is not sufficient, the gain in latency takes place, because an image “can” be displayed over a space time = 1/120s.
Finally, I understand that it is not motivating because my request is isolated, but within a year or two the request will be great. So it’s not wasted work.
III.
“Framebuffer (fbdev) is not capable to handle the bandwidth for you to play a video and pull up a GUI overlay without producing hiccups. Amlogic also uses fb compression for some codecs and resolutions to make it work.
So yeah this is a limitation of CE but right now there is no alternative. Actually there is but we have not the manpower to switch.”
Alright, I completely understand. I will continue to support these artifacts for as long as it takes. Or I’ll re-enable the Scaling. I will see. ^^
Regarding adding a 4k@120hz display option, is it also too tedious a job for the workforce ?
And why not stay in 24hz?
Because all modern display systems can display 120 frames per second, and even in a variable way… Beyond the improved fluidity, 120 Hz is considered the minimum frequency to no longer perceive any latency between the control and display. If all smartphones tend towards this frequency to the detriment of autonomy, it is no coincidence. More over, all monitors (PC) go up to this frequency, and it is now the standard for TVs as well.
Even if in reality there are other parameters which intervene in the ergonomics of the interface, 120 hz is part of it. It would be silly not to leave this choice to the user. It doesn’t take anything away from the others, it doesn’t change anything for you who prefer to stay at 60 Hz. Although when you’ve tried it, you’ll understand.
Provided that the devs have the time to devote themselves to this of course.
Asking the same thing three times a week won’t get what you want. We’re limited in what we can do and we work with what we have access to. Although always polite, sometimes it’s a bit too much to have you on repeat.
Hi,
I knew I had gotten a (negative) response regarding the artifacts bug. But I didn’t think I got an answer regarding a @120hz display option. Sorry for the inconvenience. Just for information. I am part of a team of about ten graphic designers producing around 1000 Clear logo and Landscape per year on the TMDB database. Everyone on this team has been waiting for this feature for CE for a long time, in silence. It must be said that there was not yet any low-power equipment to take advantage of it before the release of Amlogic A311D2. I did not intervene on this functionality the first months of the release, because it was obvious that there were other priorities. But today it seemed appropriate to tell you about it. At least now the request is made. I hope it will be taken into consideration when you have the opportunity. I realize that you have a lot of work and probably other priorities. We will be patient. Thank you for your work.
And while you are at it, I would also ask for 8K support, and Dolby Vision, and Spatial Sound, and an internet browser since all those goodies are surrounding us…, yes why not.
But Santa season is gone and we have to descend to earth again
@Sholander
Why come and read the CE 2023 thread, if the 2010 version is enough for you ?
Joking aside ; many users use Kodi for 2 reasons :
Because its video/audio compatibility is complete.
Because it allows to reach a level of graphic interface which meets all the requirements, through its customization, and its high technics qualitys.
Again, even a smartphone is 120hz compatible for its GUI. We are talking about a phone, a battery-powered mobile device… And this has been the case for more than 5 years. 120 hz, seriously, in 2023…
Fortunately, progress does not wait for those who cannot stand change. Besides, I assure you, such an option would not change anything in your use.
@TheCoolest
I wouldn’t risk wasting my time arguing if I didn’t know the subject. I work with many machines, some of which display a refresh rate of 120 Hz. The difference in comfort provided by 120hz is the same as that provided by the passage from 30hz to 60hz. Even a beginner perceives the difference very greatly. That beyond 120hz it is debatable, I can understand, but below, it hasn’t been debated for many years. Read scientific literature on the human/machine interface, read the HiTech press, etc. And again, why discuss this, when it takes nothing away from those who prefer to stick with a 24hz, 30hz or 60hz interface ?
I understand that if you don’t have a 120hz TV, you can’t feel the interest of this option and even less work on this project. I know it’s still high-end equipment, and not everyone has it yet. In the meantime, it is true that only those who own them are frustrated that they cannot enjoy them with Kodi CE; but believe me, this type of TV will very soon be as common as owning a 4K TV. Every day more and more of us will feel the delay of CE compared to the interfaces of Smartphones, tablets, game consoles, etc.
In any case, I’m always willing to help the CE team finance the equipment they need, through a secure system, within my means.
I was not comparing the smartphone to the TV, but more exactly Android 120hz adaptive to Kodi CE 60hz fixed. One of the advantages of owning a recent SUC is partly for the ease of use linked to the graphic display.
Before 60hz, 30hz seemed ok too. Besides, if you knew the number of people who preferred black and white when color arrived. Then the number of people who laughed at those who were working on 4K, when we were on 1080p. Etc. This type of discussion has been going on since I’ve been in this business. Fortunately science demonstrates the real interest of the 120hz frequency, and not marketing.
I’m not insisting, I just wanted to present my arguments. It’s not a priority, it’s not even a need. This is all leisure, so I’ll wait as long as it takes. I rely on your know-how and your sense of priorities. Thank you for taking the time to read me anyway.
I’m sure all my movies which are recorded at 23,9 Hz will look much better at 120 Hz. Or wait… maybe that is only an LCD/LED issue? That’s it! - Just replace your TV with a projector and no more artefacts even at 50 Hz!
@HeresJohnny
This request was unrelated to artifact issues. Whether there is a 120hz option or not, currently I am already accepting these (GUI) artifacts on a daily basis, preferring a true 4K@60hz display to faithfully test the rendering of the graphics work we do on TMDB .
Also, until a solution is found to get a true 4k display of the GUI, for those who would like that 120hz display without these artifact issues now → with upscaling enabled (from 1080p), I’m confident they wouldn’t experience artifacts with the latest Amlogic Soc.
